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Socialist Communist Tawaik

Arguments I have noticed against Communism as a Communist

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Before I begin, I must insist that I am a Communist-Socialist, agreeing with some, if not most Trotskyist ideals; I am not trying to tarnish Communism on this sight.

I only want to see the opinions of fellow leftist's on this topic, when I have gotten into a debate with someone whom is against Communism, most of these people will refer me to the 'Black Book of Communism'. I have never read this but I do know that in it's introduction editor Stéphane Courtois states that Communist systems of government (which it calls 'regimes', already typical of Right wingers), but Courtois then goes on to say, and I quote the death toll under Communist governments amounts to 94 million.

The then lists cases were he gets his 'facts' from:

  • 65 million in the People's Republic of China
  • 20 million in the Soviet Union
  • 2 million in Cambodia
  • 2 million in North Korea
  • 1.7 million in Ethiopia
  • 1.5 million in Afghanistan
  • 1 million in the Eastern Bloc
  • 1 million in Vietnam
  • 150,000 in Latin America
  • 10,000 deaths "resulting from actions of the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power.

I am not saying this is correct; but it is obviously a shocking statement....

I would like to know the opinions of fellow comrades;

Is it false? Is it fact? If it is fact, what could have caused this? and is it a fair representation of Communism?

My opinion:

This may be controversial on this sight but I must say that I believe that some of this is fact, at least in terms of the Eastern bloc, the Soviet Union, North Korea Cambodia and China.

I say this only because in my belief this is not true Communism, lets first get the least controversial statement out of the way;

In Cambodia, Pol Pot, although he was a proclaimed Communist after being educated in France, in my opinion was not a true Communist, he had his own agenda (I will mention a lot of peoples own agendas later), he felt like the then current French colonialism was oppressive (which it was, don't get me wrong) but this is were his own agendas come in, he secretly wanted to restore the almost ancient ways that the Cambodians lived in, with one supreme king who the people praised as a god (guess who that would have been) and de-modernize the country, killing all intellectuals, banishing people from cities, betraying the Khmer Rouge and even not allowing people to eat; this is not Communism! Therefore, Courtois is also wrong in saying Cambodia is responsible for any killings in 'the name of Communism', but he is correct when considering the killings that took place.

In the Soviet Union, Stalin became the second leader, STALIN IS NOT A TRUE COMMUNIST! He used Communism to gain power and benefit himself, just like what the evils of Capitalism brings, and although he wanted to ensure his nations survival by starting many great collectives and 5 year plans, his relentlessness killed his own people, but in my opinion, he truly wanted to ensure that his grip on power survives, he did not care for Communism or his people, he only wanted power. This is also shown when he used leaders of the Bolshevik party (such as Lenin) to get to the top and purged his own party of any opposition so no one could say over wise, having Lev Kamenev in 1936 after making him 'submit', exiling Leon Trotsky and eventually having Trotsky assassinated in 1940 (whom I believe was the rightful leader of the soviet). Stalin used Communism to gain power and to feed his own agenda, his agenda would only cause the '1 million' (not sure if I agree with the statistics given by Courtois) deaths in the Eastern bloc and also the deaths caused by the Kim dynasty in the DPRK (again, not sure if I agree with statistics), whom are not true Communists, Kim Il Sung was educated on Stalinism and Stalin showed him how he could abuse Communism, although I do think that Sung's reign until the 90's was a prosperous one and I do admire the hydro-electric power utilised by North Korea, he still was corrupt, the most cases sources being the purging of his own officials and people, labour camps and the fact that he made his countries rule into a dynasty, NOT COMMUNISM!

My final point, in China, I do believe that Mao Zedong, at first was a true Communist, he had the interests of his people and Communism from 1921 until 1949 and he did improve the lives of the Chinese in power but I believe after that his influence by Stalin took over, Mao's great collective and 5 year plan, although noble, was a failure and when he was removed by power, the influence that Stalin left him with was that he could use Communism for his own agenda and when he was removed he couldn't cope with it, the wanted revenge, he wanted power, brainwashing the youth of China into the Cultural Revolution which then killed millions, although the victims were mainly the corrupt, they still did not deserve the humiliating and brutal deaths that they had gotten due Mao's agenda; even Mao's own people ridiculed him after his death and arrested 4 of his closest political allies (including his wife), who all, including Mao (in the end) used Communism to further their own agendas of power and wealth, as seen with the other leaders I have shown, NOT TRUE COMMUNISTS.

I know this may have been controversial and I hope you can respect my beliefs, again I am a Communist-Socialist and am not here to ridicule anyone's beliefs, unless of course you support Imperialism, Nationalism, Fascism and Capitalism, then I disagree with what you have to say (ha, hope non have them have made their way into this group)

And off course, what is your opinion on the 'Black book of Communism'?...

Yours sincerely,

Socialist-Communist Tawaik

(And thanks if you made it to the end!)

Edited by Socialist Communist Tawaik

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Caelapes    273

I have moved this out of Matters Up For the Vote since it is more of a real-life political discussion rather than a TI discussion.

11 hours ago, Socialist Communist Tawaik said:

when I have gotten into a debate with someone whom is against Communism, most of these people will refer me to the 'Black Book of Communism'.

The Black Book of Communism is a bunch of garbage. It is chock full of inaccuracies, falsehoods, and outright lies and has been debunked and criticized by many historians, not just communists.

11 hours ago, Socialist Communist Tawaik said:

In Cambodia, Pol Pot, although he was a proclaimed Communist after being educated in France, in my opinion was not a true Communist,

Even the tankiest tankies who support Stalin and the DPRK don't support Pol Pot. I have never, ever met a communist who supports or apologizes for Pol Pot or the Khmer Rouge, and defense of the Khmer Rouge or Pol Pot is bannable in The Internationale just as Nazbols are.

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10 hours ago, Socialist Communist Tawaik said:

Totally agree about Pol Pot, don't think anyone would support him

Pol Pot was an Agrarianist

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Kilgar    0

When we are aggressive, do people die? Yes.

Polish, Russian, American, Canadian ... it doesn't matter. Life is temporary. Sometimes we can choose our death, sometimes we cannot. I almost could not more than once. I'm sure you have or will too. Such is life, capitalist or communist. People die but not everyone reports the facts. Thus is our regard for honor and morality.


That is my consideration, anyway.

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