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World Anarchic Union

Discussion: Regarding casual talk in TI

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Comrades,

Due to some discussions propping up about the state of the RMB and Discord and the established rules regarding what is allowed and not, an official such discussion seems useful and needed. The ban on personal attacks, toxic content, offensive language and such aren't the point of this discussion, TI stands firmly against such content, but rather the tolerance or not of casual language and what constitutes it is more the point. 

This thread isn't a voting one nor a proposal for one. Neither the Charter nor the Code of Conduct specify what needs to be done about such a matter, one way or the other, for the time being at least, modifications aren't needed. This is a discussion around the matter where every comrade if they want to can give their opinion.

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Personally, I would like to see The Internationale becoming a more welcoming space for casual players and less focused exclusively on the few dedicated people that have been around since always (a.k.a. probably anyone posting in this thread). 

First things first: the RMB. For what I've alreeady seen in the few past discussions about this, I think most of us agree that we have to give more freedom to our members to discuss a wider variety of topics in our RMB. Personally I don't care about maintaining any "minimum standard of seriousness" on the region, so I think we should let people discuss any topic they want that doesn't break the game's rules (PG-13, not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, defamatory or spam, you know the deal). Maybe this way we can make our dead RMB be a bit more active again. The only topic I think we could restrict in the RMB is roleplaying, not because anything other than because it usually takes lots of space and messages and makes carrying on other discussions more difficult. 

I also consider it is needed a reform in our Discord server as well. Although I think several things need to change in how our server works, I will just talk about those related to what kind of discussions and where are they allowed, to stay on-topic.
As you know, our Discord server is divided in channels for our users to discuss a wide variety of topics on them. While this by itself should be a good thing, it's not weird to see people (sometimes members of the council) strictly trying to move conversations as soon as they stray away slightly from a channel's original purpose, which is in my opinion both kind of useless and makes our server look less like the place for entertainment it is. If this wasn't enough, I recall having seen in the past (very few times, luckily) some users engaging in this kind of behaviour in a way that it felt that they weren't worried about the server's maintenance as much as on rejoicing on their own compliance as if they were "better users" than the rest (not giving out names), an attitude that I think we should avoid at all costs.
Due to all of this, I think that we should allow more freedom of discussion on Discord as well, not about what can be discussed such as in the RMB but in this case more as where can discussions stay.

Regarding discord, I also have a few objections on how CW content is handled, but I would like to go step by step and explain that later: as I said, things first things, I want to see first an agreement on our issue regarding the RMB.

Edited by Ayanka
Fixed grammar. Me fail english? That's unpossible.

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On 12/19/2018 at 5:17 PM, Ayanka said:

Personally, I would like to see The Internationale becoming a more welcoming space for casual players and less focused exclusively on the few dedicated people that have been around since always (a.k.a. probably anyone posting in this thread). 

First things first: the RMB. For what I've alreeady seen in the few past discussions about this, I think most of us agree that we have to give more freedom to our members to discuss a wider variety of topics in our RMB. Personally I don't care about maintaining any "minimum standard of seriousness" on the region, so I think we should let people discuss any topic they want that doesn't break the game's rules (PG-13, not obscene, illegal, threatening, malicious, defamatory or spam, you know the deal). Maybe this way we can make our dead RMB be a bit more active again. The only topic I think we could restrict in the RMB is roleplaying, not because anything other than because it usually takes lots of space and messages and makes carrying on other discussions more difficult. 

I also consider it is needed a reform in our Discord server as well. Although I think several things need to change in how our server works, I will just talk about those related to what kind of discussions and where are they allowed, to stay on-topic.
As you know, our Discord server is divided in channels for our users to discuss a wide variety of topics on them. While this by itself should be a good thing, it's not weird to see people (sometimes members of the council) strictly trying to move conversations as soon as they stray away slightly from a channel's original purpose, which is in my opinion both kind of useless and makes our server look less like the place for entertainment it is. If this wasn't enough, I recall having seen in the past (very few times, luckily) some users engaging in this kind of behaviour in a way that it felt that they weren't worried about the server's maintenance as much as on rejoicing on their own compliance as if they were "better users" than the rest (not giving out names), an attitude that I think we should avoid at all costs.
Due to all of this, I think that we should allow more freedom of discussion on Discord as well, not about what can be discussed such as in the RMB but in this case more as where can discussions stay.

Regarding discord, I also have a few objections on how CW content is handled, but I would like to go step by step and explain that later: as I said, things first things, I want to see first an agreement on our issue regarding the RMB.



I don't know what your ideas and proposals on Discord channels are (and I wish to hear them soon), but whoever may go against the following points will have to step on my corpse to have them passed:

1) Deleting or diluting the enforcement of CW channels: They are fundamental, as there are some topics (for example in the field of sex, drugs, alcohol, suicide, etc.) whose discussion in general channels must be avoided in order to make every comrade and friend feel comfortable and safeguarded.

2) Loosening the guard on TI as a safe space. We councillors for moderation have discussed this in private and we have agreed on an agenda of strictly enforcing the "safety" of our space in regards to any potentially sexist, homotransphobic, ableist and racist content.

Said this, I am open to every kind of reform and discussions

Edited by Zenganopoli
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In my opinion, TI's RMB has failed to provide the serious political discussion that was desired (personally, I would like it to be as similar to North Korea's as possible and I am pretty sure that Diljan/Proletaire had something like that in mind when the whole disallowing casual discussion affair happened), so I would like to drop the suggestions of a weekly (or bi-weekly) topic and of more frequent serious in-game polls. I think that both could help towards improving the situation. 

When it comes to the Discord server, I believe that it is quite ok in general and I agree with Zengan's post above regarding content warning channels and strictly enforcing the rules. 

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Personally, I don’t think Discord has much of a reason to be changed much if at all. I was opposed to creating two separate CW channels at first but other comrades had problems with certain subjects discussed and TI should be a space for all to feel comfortable in. If I think something should change, it’s that I don’t believe there needs to be constant intervention by moderators because a conversation doesn’t happen in the appropriate space, e.g. a serious conversation in the Casual Discussion channels or a more casual one in the General channel etc. These conversations erupt spontaneously due to something that was discussed in that space and if moved, some times at least, they lose their focus and participation. But that isn’t something especially serious, in my view, or essential to be changed, but an observation and suggestion. 

With that in mind, and in particular the spontaneity of a conversation, I will now talk about the RMB. I don’t believe that such a change that Freien is referring to would do much. The RMB is the first and for many the only space they come to know of TI and, imo, it is too restrictive. Casual conversation, in most ways, is frowned upon. I agree about adding serious in-game polls, these can generate a discussion but I disagree about applying a topic around which a conversation should start. On the other hand, enabling most discussion, with the exclusion of RP and of course spam, offensive language, racism, homophobia etc, can liven up the RMB, which is admittedly in a bad state, myself included in those who don’t write anything to help it be more active, and can even result in serious and worthwhile conversations, like in the past or in Discord. An only-politically serious RMB, like what we attempted to do, at least in our case, resulted in a stale space with few developments or discussions that were more than a couple of exchanges. 

With that in mind for starters, I am interested in other viewpoints regarding what has so far been talked about. 

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Trying to apply serious topics seems like trying too hard. I know where this will go: either it will be completely ignored or, as the best outcome, just receive a few uninterested posts in response. I think a serious poll once in a while is enough and we shouldn't go further trying to push serious political discussion into the RMB that, as we have seen, doesn't attract lots of interest: if people don't want it, then let it be this way.
As far as I can see there's not much opposition to turning the RMB back into a zone for casual activities and discussion. Should we wait for more opinions or start applying this to the RMB now?

29 minutes ago, World Anarchic Union said:

If I think something should change, it’s that I don’t believe there needs to be constant intervention by moderators because a conversation doesn’t happen in the appropriate space, e.g. a serious conversation in the Casual Discussion channels or a more casual one in the General channel etc.

Glad we agree on that. It's just an observation, as you have said, but it still implies a change on our moderation team's mindset.

7 hours ago, Zenganopoli said:

Deleting or diluting the enforcement of CW channels: They are fundamental, as there are some topics (for example in the field of sex, drugs, alcohol, suicide, etc.) whose discussion in general channels must be avoided in order to make every comrade and friend feel comfortable and safeguarded.

2) Loosening the guard on TI as a safe space. We councillors for moderation have discussed this in private and we have agreed on an agenda of strictly enforcing the "safety" of our space in regards to any potentially sexist, homotransphobic, ableist and racist content.

I agree that we need CW channels in discord, both to avoid making people feel uncomfortable and to allow freedom of discussion as well at the same time, and I also agree that reactionary behaviour should not be tolerated in our server. Just to make things clear regarding what I've said before, I haven't complained about the existence of CW channels, but more about the process of decision of which contents go into those channels, an issue that I have talked about previously with one of our Councillors for Moderation.
Overall, my problem with our Discord server isn't related to its structure as much as the whole system of moderation that is enforced on it. To summarize: it sucks. Don't take offense at this moderators, since this is something that dates from way before the position of councillor of moderation was created (and probably way before I even joined the region). I would love to explain my concerns and complaints here but I feel like this is not the thread to do so, so I'll just create a separated thread explaining myself soon so you all can discuss and give your opinions.

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